Watch the film “Devil’s Advocate” and answer these questions on the blog:
What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
Saturday, June 6, 2009
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe Devil’s Advocate
ReplyDeleteMr. Milton - “Free will, Is like butterflies wings, once touched they never lay off the ground”
What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
For starters, Satan AKA Milton AKA for US Al Pacino is running the show. He is using a law firm and as Milton stated, is Law and because it puts you into everything. Is the ultimate backstage pass. The ethical dilemma begins right away when Mr. Kevin Lowmax (Keanu Reeves) gets an acquittal of a Gainesville 8th grade teacher for raping a young girl. After that, he is offered a large sum to work for a large NY firm. Once he began to work there, he began making incredible amounts of money. Unknowingly for his dad, he goes on this lavish lifestyle and quickly began to pull him in quicker than he even noticed. Being in this new lifestyle, he placed more emphasis on doing whatever possible to win cases. He put his personal life aside, including his wife, religion, mother and worse of all his values.
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
From the very beginning of the movie Kevin was all vice. With every case he won, the degrees of crimes became more potent. Virtue evidence commenced after brief scene In his last case with Alexander Culling (The real estate giant) that is charged for murdering four people. He knew Mr. Culling was lying after Melissa Blair (Alexander’s assistant.) could not tell whether or not Mr. Culling was circumcised. Again, virtue was placed when realizing that there were demons in church and him knowing his wife was not lying about being raped by Alexander. Ultimately the best in him prevailed when he took his own life. That “FREE WILL” which was really a nice ending. I take that back, Al Pacino’s “Vanity, definitely my favorite Sin.” quote was my favorite ending.
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
All cases in the movie are relevant but without all the science-fiction. I believe we should use defense readiness condition (DEFCON) level system to evaluate the following. DEFCON5 – Where we work, the boss hires family members without any experience and wind up as our bosses, like if you don’t have a godfather you won’t get baptized. DEFCON4 - In the police departments, corruption, professional courtesy, and all those illegal activities we know about but cant speak up without winding up dead or in jail. DEFCON3 - At the law firm, lawyers from all firms have a certain code to meet when dealing with each other and in the end those they represent get the shaft. DEFCON2 - At the State level politicians, such as senators and congressman have their lunches and special events to discuss how much money they want for their special interests. DEFCON1 - And the last and most powerful is the at the White house level. Yes, the president and other world officials run the globe and only those who think otherwise perhaps believe only corruption there are from lobbyist, Hah, think again.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteA) I think Joel is absolutely correct regarding the ethical questions portrayed in this film. Should a lawyer’s duty to provide an individual’s right to their sixth amendment (right to counsel) trump the fact that their defendant raped an innocent little girl? Does success in whatever your endeavor (in this case LAW) at any cost vindicates the path you've chosen? Obviously this film depicts a good vs. evil that can easily be chosen, but as recent events have shown (Madoff, AIG, DICK CHENEY) not everyone chooses the "good" path...
ReplyDeleteB) I think the only time where he demonstrated a selfless virtue was at the end of the film where he took his own life. Every virtue prior to that had an ulterior motive (moving his wife to a nice place in NYC - self gain & career progression; mourning & attempting to avenge his wife's death - began negotiating with the devil). And as far as vices are concerned, of the seven deadly sins the film demonstrated 5 of the 7. Vanity- anything Pacino did; Avarice- anyone that worked at the firm in NYC; Lust- brother&sister and father-in-law&daughter-in-law; Wrath- Kevin's feelings toward Wife/Dad/Mom; Envy- the guy who was beaten to death at the park vs. Kevin.
C) Yes I believe both the ethical questions and values are present in today's legal profession. Although the positive aspects far outweigh the negative ones, it is only the negative ones that make headline news. Just think how far we've come as a nation established by laws regarding issues such as slavery, women's rights, racism & ethnic equality, etc... Yet enormous blunders (anything Bush & his admin did: A. Gonzalez DOJ, D. Rumsfeld DOD, D. Cheney surpassing Satan as the biggest asshole on earth) cast a shadow over our achievements. Given all of the recent cases putting a dark stain on our legal system, we cannot forget that our legal system is the model to most every developed nation and is truly a beacon of light. As JJ Dewey once said, "You can shine a light and dispel darkness, but you cannot shine 'dark' and dispel light."
During the early part of his career, I don’t believe Keanu consider the ethical dilemma that inevitably faces many attorney’s when defending guilty clients. As a new attorney you’re driven to use what you have learned in school to “represent” your client regardless of guilt.
ReplyDeleteAt some point ( as in this movie ) reality kicks in a you realize your efforts are freeing guilty people, people that in some cases have committed egregious crimes, that’s when the ethical issues come into play.
To some extent you’re dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t; remember the ethics issue works both ways. If you are an attorney and you discover your client is guilty, too bad; you still have a responsibility to represent that client.
Anyone who thinks they would drop the case, or not represent the client to the extent the law allows should not consider becoming an attorney.
In the film "Devil's Advocate", the ethical questions regarding the legal profession that drive the film and its content commence with Mr. Kevin Lowmax (Keanu Reeves) when he got the acquittal of the eighth grade teacher who had sexually assaulted a young girl. During the court proceedings he knew that the accused was guilty but demonstrated his brilliance to get his client set free. Accepting the offer to practice in a New York Law firm and making an abundance of money Kevin should have realized that something was morally wrong especially with the practices/activities of the firm. With his new lifestyle he placed more importance on doing whatever it took to win his case. Wealth, greed, and the neglect of his wife and mother indicated that his moral and ethical values were at stake.
ReplyDeleteThe virtues and vices that are illustrated in the film are seen from the onset when Kevin was making love to his wife and he was having flashes of making love to one of Milton's women.
ReplyDeleteIn the last case where Culling was charged for murder Kevin knew that he was guilty after his main witness could not tell whether he (Culling)was circumcised or not. In the demonstration of virtue Kevin did not believe his wife when she told him about the rape incident.
It is true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession. Sometimes attorneys would have to represent clients who are accused of committing an offense and based on their duties and responsibilities as attorneys they would be privy as to whether the accused committed the offense or not. As a result ethics with respect to their job will leave the attorney to represent the accused to the best of his ability.
I don’t think ethics is a big issue to attorney’s; so their client is guilty, No-S@%T why do you think they got an attorney in the first place.
ReplyDeleteWhen dealing with guilty clients an attorney’s job is to make sure the prosecutor follows the rules, and his client is subject to “Due Process” and given a “Fair Trial.”
Remember most people don’t go free because they are innocent, they are probably guilty as sin; they go free because the prosecution or the police failed to follow the rules.
Call it a technicality if you like, but if we didn’t have this adversarial process in place how many more innocent people would be in jail today ?
It’s unpleasant especially when the evidence unquestionably convicts the perpetrator of a particular crime, but as the saying goes, “the door has to swing both ways” as a society we can’t pick and choose when the rules should or shouldn’t apply.
1. Kevin Lomax is a promising young lawyer who has never lost a case. But, as he works his way up the corporate ladder, he manages to put his values aside, along with his wife's needs and his conscience. Milton (the devil) is luring Kevin in slowly with all the attractions.
ReplyDelete2. Defending a client who is guilty was his vice. Along with just about everything else in the movie. But, his virtue is when he took his life at the end of the movie.
3. Yes, it is true many of these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession today. Such as defending a person you know is guilty of killing a person. Yes, in America you are innocent until "proven" guilty. I emphasize the word proven to illustrate the point it is a great burden at times to prove guilt.
Kevin Lomax (Keanu Reeves) is a hot-shot lawyer who has never lost a case. This pushes his vanity to the extreme, so much so that the truth really doesn't matter, he just wants to win. This attracts the attention of John Milton (Al Pacino), who offers him a job that's too good to refuse. His lovely but increasingly unstable wife (Charlize Theron) at first supports him, but she begins to fall apart quickly.
ReplyDeleteEven without its little touches and in-jokes, "The Devil's Advocate" would be a great film. But the story is taken to the next level with its little ironies (as in the the fact that the Devil is the head of a big law firm, and he chose the name John Milton).
This movie has a very original plot, and it also contains enough layers to stay interesting throughout. The many story developments keep it moving at a good pace, and at times the director really pulls of some really great things. The confrontation at the end is just an instant classic scene, amazing in every way. And I might be kicking in an open door here, but Al Pacino is a very good actor. His portrayal of Milton/Satan is perfect, he's threatening and dark but you can still buy that people trust him, it's a subtle performance that makes this movie. However, part of this story seems a bit contrived. Why are these protagonists so extremely excited about moving to New York? They nearly faint when they see their new apartment, I'm having a difficult time believing a Florida lawyer winning 64 times in a row has is that bad back home. The ending is also let's say, an acquired taste. I personally am not really that into it
ReplyDeleteYes, it is true many of these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession He appears in human form and presents human choices, and his greatest lure is what we have in common with him: our greed, ego, jealousy, competitiveness, lust, dishonesty
ReplyDeleteThe values in the legal profession that drive the film and the contents are the values of the lawyers. Their values where to make money, fit in with the crowd, build a carrier and win cases. If this meant sacrificing family then that is what had to be done.
ReplyDeleteVirtues displayed by Kevin were courage because he could have taken the easy way out at the end of the movie. Instead Kevin stood up and used his “free will”.
To name a few vices, I saw lust, envy& pride. Kevin was tempted to make love to his Christabella since he first meet her. As said by many in previous posts he even imagined her while he was making love to his wife. Alexander Cullen is envious when he finds out that Kevin is to take over the firm. Kevin displays pride throughout the entire movie. He does not want to lose a case he refuses to lose the case not matter what the consequences are.
Of course they are present in the legal profession. Lawyers have to constantly represent people they know are guilty and have their clients lie in order to win cases. Like what happened to Kevin in the movie, he knew he was representing and standing by something that was wrong but it was his ”job”.
I agree with Tony when he said;
ReplyDelete"To some extent you’re dammed if you do and dammed if you don’t; remember the ethics issue works both ways. If you are an attorney and you discover your client is guilty, too bad; you still have a responsibility to represent that client"
When you are an attorney you basically have to just turn your head, suck it up and keep representing that client. We have seen this outcome in both films, where the attorneys at the end weigh out doing their job v. the right thing to do. at the end they rather do what is right than do their job and live with a guilty conscious.
The reality of it is that most lawyers don't really take the pat of the right thing to do, they just do their job.
A true “Ethical Issue” in the film is the motivation behind Al Pacino recruiting Keanu. He stated in the film when asked “Why the law,” because they are involved in everything and everywhere.
ReplyDeleteForget the devil for a moment and think espionage; if you really wanted in infiltrate a government, organization or society for that matter, the legal profession would be a good medium because the law touches everything we do directly or indirectly.
you guys have one more day to post - better hurry
ReplyDeletethe ethical issue is that keanu's character kevin lomax faces is to defend people who he knows are guiltly. in the very begining of the movie when the girl was testifying about what the teacher had done to her. he glanced over at the teacher which he was supposed to defend and saw him touching himself he knew that he was guilty, but still had to defend him. throughout the movie he also has to defend another man who was accoused of killing his wife and maid. kevin knew that this man was guilty, but still had to defend him and even had somebody lie on the stand as an alibi to win his case. his character is stuck in a possition where he has to represent these guilty people because he is their lawyer.
ReplyDeletekevins vices in the movie come from his winning. he never lost a case so his fear of loosing was a drive in him to win his cases regaurdless of his clients guilt. it was a winning thing for him. the money and moving to the big city also got him wrapped up to the point where he ignored his wife when she asked for help.
im sure in the legal profession lawyers are constantly faced with the challenge of having to represent somebody who they know is guilty. it's a part of the profession. we even saw examples of it in the movie we saw last week "and justice for all"
The ethical questions regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content is that the legal system is designed to do a job that is fair but in reality the job isn’t and will never be fair, because the rich will always have more money to hired the best lawyers to get away with crime; that is an ethical problem. I believe the legal system was designed for the rich to get away with things from the poor and also to keep people away from taking justice into their own hand. The rich as always been the dominant force in the world and because majority of them are so selfish they always do things for their best interest, why would the legal system be any different.
ReplyDeleteThe prosecutors and defenders can always be wrong in their belief. Some started with a conscious mind thinking that the accuser is honest as it seems like that was the case for Kevin Lomax, but vanity makes him take the unethical road. The people seem to be honest at the beginning of the case, then he find out they were not. I was asking myself why didn’t he dropped the cases; looking at all that he had to loosed, I’m sure that will be an easy decision for anybody to make. We have laws that prevent a lawyer from dropping a case once it started, at some point if the lawyer do dropped the case he/she could even loses his/her license. Is it possible that human is capable of making ethical decision only when there is no self interest and as an outsider? The ethical problem is not just the law, but all humanity.
John Milton said in the movie Devil’s Advocate that “the worst vice is advice”. Every major things or decisions that happen in the movie were free will, even though Kevin had some advised from the devil but it was his chose.
It is my belief that most if not all of these ethical question and values are present in the legal profession today and it’s getting worse every day.
This was my first time seeing this movie in fact I’ve seen it multiple time since the first time. I think if it wasn’t for this class I probably would saw it as another entertaining movie but not the real ethical issues that we’re facing in our legal system.
I disagree with you Frederich, I don't believe that the positive aspects far outweigh the negative one, using your examples about slavery, women's rights racism and ethical quality all these things happen because people were outrage, people we tired of the inequality, the physical and psychological abused over the decades, even now with the bad economy that the government using over a trillion dollar to help all those major companies but yet we can’t even afford a good education, the school is firing teachers, which mean more students in the class room; the education system is breaking down and no one can do anything about it. When we are outrage we make sure things are being done for our best interest we can care less about the law. Remember that it was legal at one point to have slave although I believed you would say it was unethical, the law was there than.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think he demonstrated any selfless virtue at all because at the end of the movie he knew that Satan loosed the war so he had a chose to make to be by Satan side and lose or to be by God side and win, I think that’s exactly what he was thinking.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteIn the "Devil's Advocate" there are many ethical questions to consider. The movie begins with a huge turning point in the life of Kevin Lomax. He is defending a teacher accused of molesting his students. After witnessing his client's reaction to a student recounting his abuse on the witness stand he becomes sickened. This is a crucial point for him, not just because he recognizes his client's guilt, but also because he has never lost a trial. He is torn between his integrity and his pride. What is better? To abandon his professional oath and pride along with his sadistic client? Or, is it better to uphold his oath and defend a man that he knows committed a despicable crime? He chooses to exploit the childish misdeeds of the student over the actual culpability of his client.
In winning what seemed a lost cause his talent is recognized by a law firm in New York. Milton, Al Pacino's character, puts the young and ambitious lawyer through several tests. However, these tests are not about Lomax's legal prowess but instead a test of his morality.
Milton plays on Kevin Lomax's vanity and this lands Lomax in a few moral dilemmas. When confronted by his wife and her uneasiness living in New York, why does he not leave or take a vacation? When he realizes that he is constantly being watched and tested, why again, did he not push back more? When his last client gets his assistant to lie on the witness stand about an affair with him he plays along to win his case. Why didn't he find another way of winning? This time he is forced to choose between his professional ethics and his pride. In the end, it takes his wife to end up in the hospital and finding out that his father is not just evil but, in fact, the devil himself to make the right decision and end Milton's plan.
What are the vices and virtues that are illustrated?
The vices that are illustrated are vanity, greed, pride and lust. The virtues that shown in the movie was integrity, honesty, compassion and service.
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
I do believe that many of the ethical questions and values depicted in the movie really exist but probably not on such an apocalyptic scale. I believe many in the legal profession are faced with doing what is right versus doing what is the law.
The ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content are Kevin Lomax who is a successful defense attorney who has won all his cases. In Kevin's first case he was defending a schoolteacher that has molested one of his students as the student goes on testifying Kevin notice his client touching and filling on himself this is the point where he knew his client is guilty but he wins the case. When he moves to New York there were other clients that he defended and he also knew that they were guilty but he defended them anyway because he has never lost a case. What could Kevin have done in these situations as he defends his clients that were all guilty? He turned his back on his family, why? I believe that he really didn’t have a way out because this was his life and his profession.
ReplyDeleteThe virtues(service, courage) and vices(greed, lust, pride,) that are illustrated is when Kevin defends his guilty clients and win, winning is everything for him and when finds Mary Ann at the Church and believes that she's lying about being raped and admits her to a mental institution. His wife attacks Pam and locks herself in the room and commits suicide he fails to stop her. At the end of the movie he took his own life.
Yes, it is ethical that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession because many times lawyers have to defend there clients even if they are guilty or not, it’s their duty.
I agree with Veronica G. when she states that, “you are innocent until proven guilty”.
A)The ethical issue in this film is lawyers are liars and they get the worse scum off because of money. The eighth grade teacher who rapes the little girl for example. Had Lowman(Reaves) gotten him off for raping the little girl then Reaves is no better than him. Defense lawyers has the worst jobs. Lowman is so self absorb that he does not pay his wife any attention and she is forced to kill herself. I agree with Luis when he say that Al Pacino is not testing Lowman's abilities as a lawyer he is testing his mortality.
ReplyDeleteB)The vices in this film is lust, greed, envy, arogance, just to name a few. Al Pacino knew that Reaves was at least one of these vices or he wouldn't have picked him. If you notice at the end of the movie Pacino played the reporter who wanted to interview Reaves because he was a hot-shot lawyer who never lost a case. that was another vice, PRIDE. The devil never gives up on his prey.
It was "free will" when Lowman chooses to end his life instead of having incest with his sister, but does he still go to hell for suicide.
I am little lost here?
C) I do not believe that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal field because defense lawyers are forced to help keep their client innocent knowing they committed the crime. Money is the rule of all evil. It really bothers me when I know that a person might have committed this crime and they are innocent until proven guilty. It just seems as if the criminal gets more defense than the victim.
Defense attorney’s often get a bad wrap because percentage wise they do defend guilty people. The ethical issue comes into play when we look at the crime a person is being charged with. I don’t think anyone has a problem defending the passenger of a Stolen Vehicle, because there is a possibility they didn’t participate in the actual theft, and as a passenger the person may not have know the vehicle was stolen.
ReplyDeleteTake that same person and charge them with rape and now ethics plays a role; but should it? Remember the Duke University case, they were charged with Rape, violent, repeated abusive rape. In the end the truth unfolded and they were actually falsely accused.
If the attorney for the students would have allowed “Ethics” to lead him down the wrong path, the students may have gone to jail for a long time for something they didn’t do.
Or maybe ethics did play a significant role, and the attorney said to himself, “I am going to defend these boys to the best of my ability.”
The ethical problems begin from the beginning of the movie when Kevin Lomax gets an acquittal of the math teacher for raping a young girl knowing that he committed the crime. Shortly after he's offered a job at a top noch law firm in New York. Then, he has to defend the Moyes guy that was killing a goat in his apartment and got him off on the fact that it was religious belief. Every case he had he won and got people off that he knew were guilty. When his mom comes into town his mom comes into town his mom realizes that Kevin shouldn't be in New York and that his wife doesn't belong their either; however, he doesn't even realize that there's something wrong with New York when his mom says something. Also in the process of him defending Culling he neglects his wife. His wife was trying to tell him everything that was going on but he didnt see it.
ReplyDeleteThe virtues illustrated in the movie were integrity, honesty, compassion, and service. The vice in the movie are vanity, greed, pride, and lust.
Many of the ethical questions and values depicted in the movie really do exist; however, not on such a grand scale. Lawyers do what they are supposed to do which is defend their clients. They have an oath just like every other profession has.
What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteKevin in the movie lost sight of right from wrong over values which in this date and time we all do. As when the movie first started the little girl was saying how the teacher touched her and the teacher Mr. Gettys was moving his hands and finger about as to how he was touching the girl while sitting next to his lawyer Kevin, saw this and as he already thought the teacher was gulity. Kevin ethics was questioned than as this big time lawyer that cant loose a case he let a child molestor walk free based on his ethical thoughts of his profession. The movie first case drove the content of the movie as to showing that people in the legal profession choice ethical over right from wrong.
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
Kevin vice was never to loose a case by all means he knew that his clients were guilty however, his profession values got in the way of right from wrong he lost sight of right and took wrong that's why it was so easy for the devil Milton to have his way with Kevin. Kevin virtue was to done by taken his on life at the end as his way of escape.
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
Yes this IS true in the legal system this IS present everyday. Proven Gulity or Innocent is not always right or wrong as we saw here in the movie. What it boils down to is what money can buy and that is wrong. The evidence with the case of the child showed the teacher as being gulity however he paid for a top of the line lawyer and the lawyer lack of ethical values got in the way.
What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteThe ethical problem surrounding the legal profession for most defense attorneys:
1)Do you defend someone you know is guilty and is now trying to cover their tracks as a way out of a prison sentence.
2)The second problem is do you allow someone to testify to the defendants innocence knowing that they are lying and you are helping them with the lie just so you can win your case.
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
ReplyDelete1.Choosing work over family.
2.Choosing to represent clients that you know are guilty and lie for them
3.Choosing to stay out all night with co-workers and friends knowing you have family at home waiting for you.
4.Vanity-choosing to be selfish and thinking we are always more important than our loved ones
5.Choosing to not take time to care for a sick family member
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the legal profession is full of persons trying to undercut and bi-pass the truth. You have clients that lie every day and attorneys who then have to back up the lies even though they know that the client was wrong, guilty and is intentionally lying.
You also have attorneys that want to win no matter what the cost is.
*What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteKevin Lowmax a young and brightful lawyer In the "Devil's Advocate" film goes though alot of ethical values. The film starts with an ethical delimma twist for Kevin Lowmax. Kevin position is a defence lawyer and his case is to defend a teacher which is accused of molesting his student. When Kevin witness his client reaction by groping himself to one of the student testifying the truth on the stand he becomes discusted. This step for Kevin in his life profession is a crucial point for him because he knows' that his client's is guilty, but also because he has never lost a trial. He is faced to fight between his integrity and his pride... The professinal code of conduct or the right dissions?
*What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
Kevin's vices in the film come from his winnings,vanity, greed, pride, lust, and popularity... Living the fabulous wealthy life moving to the big city and better pay got Kevin wrapped up to the point where he ignored everthing that was really important in his life like his wife when she asked for help, his mother when is told him things, and his religion belifies that he was raised with. The virtues illustrated in the film was integrity, compassion, service, loyalty, and justice.
*Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
Most of the ethical and values within the film really do exist in this profession; but, nothing like these hollywood movies potray them to be. Lawyers do what they do the best wither it is to defend or prosuqute, they have an oath and an duty to do. They signed up for that profession and with each profession there will always be an ethical issue.
1- what are the ethical questions regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content? Kevin did not wanted to risk being disbarred or maintain respect for himself as a human being, his obligations as an attorney was winning everything in the legal profession; caused him to commits basic sin and doing things that was completely wrong
ReplyDelete2- I think that everything in the movie was vice.
3- Yes I think and believe that now a days the ethical questions and values presented in the movie does exist in the legal profession. Attorneys have to defend there clients no matter what, its their job and they get paid good money for it!
There are two questions raised in this movie that are inherent with all legal cases:
ReplyDeleteDo you defend a party or interest even when there is suspicion, by you, that that party or interest may indeed be guilty or negligent?
Is it ethical to withdraw from a case based on your suspicion, even though this person is presumed innocent until proven guilty?
And is there a conflict of interest between a good attorney and a virtuos person?
I have to agree with you Frankley when you include ego and competition in your response to the last question. I believe that Milton used competition and the egos of the lawyers he hired to get them to do his bidding. Even though he would offer suggestions that would be for someone else's good (i.e. when he tells Lomax to give up the Cullen case for his wife's health) However, I believe that while offering a "good choice" he really plays to their egos, especially Lomax's, to get what he wants.
ReplyDeleteIn some ways this is true with plea bargains and such. I say this because sometimes, and often times regardless of the truth, lawyers will offer defendants plea bargains for their own sake. Sometimes unwitting defendants accept them though they may really be getting the short end of the stick because they believe that they will get a more severe punishment if they go to trial.
Let me rephrase my last question:
ReplyDeleteCan a good attorney, who's job it is to defend accusations against their client, even when they are suspicious of that client, also be a virtuous person?
My first question is illustrated throughout the film and in the real world when attorneys accept cases where evidence exist that his clients may be guilty. I think every lawyer, who examines evidence against there client, will have a little doubt to the credibility of their client. Otherwise I would have to say they are naive.
ReplyDeleteThe film illustrated my second question when Kevin gets a second chance at defending the school teacher accused of raping his student, and based on a suspicious action by his client inside the courtroom and not factual evidence relating to the case, asks to be withdrawn and attorney.
ReplyDeleteBy judging his client to be guilty, it can be argued that Kevin was not honoring the ethical obligations to presume his clients innocence until proven guilty. But it also illustrated the conflict of interest within an attorney to both honor that ethical obligation to presume their client's innocence and also honoring their virtues and not defending a person they believe to be guilty.
Im sorry I meant to write "asked to be withdrawn as attorney"
ReplyDeleteThis plot of this movie was based on many vices- deception, guilt, immorality, unfaithfulness, lust, injustice, dishonesty...it took some time but it also illustarted virtues when Kevin showed compassion, morality and integrity to withdraw from the case against the school teacher.
ReplyDeleteThis movie illustrated in a Hollywood way the moral and ethical dilemas that attorneys inherit with their profession. It illuminates the delicate balance between being virtuous and being a good attorney.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteIn this movie, the ethical values depicted are ignored, corrupted, and no sense of integrity whatsoever. Kevin always wants to win and that is his passion and ambition. Milton is the devil behind everything we oppose morally and ethically....between what is right and what is wrong. Should Kevin have dedicated his entire career into ALWAYS winning and ignored his family at home? Which in turn brings about deadly results. Should Kevin turn the case in and let prosecution win knowing his defendants are guilty?, or continue to win because winning is more important than justice?
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
The vices portayed in the film are pride, greed, vanity, lust, temptation, and corruption; these factors would belong to a person who believes he is the best and no else like him, and would go just about any level to proclaim victory. On the hand, integrity, honesty, honor, and justice are the virtues that every person working in government should practice and abide by.
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
Definitely. There are many ethical issues in our criminal justice system justice that go unheard of and many others publicated by the media. But perhaps it is the nature of the human soul and experience that shapes and forms our ethical backgrounds and moral values in each and every one of us differently.
1. The ethical questions regarding the legal profession that drove the film & its content were demonstrated throughout the film by all the characters. One of them being that Kevin admitted his little secret of listening to the jury members deliberate through a hole in the wall. I am pretty sure he discovered he can hear them “by mistake” but, as a lawyer of “good moral” character, should he have continued to listen in over the years as he said he did? That’s the way things start, small. It’s almost like his success was built on a lie.
ReplyDelete2. The virtue in the film was Kevin living up to his oath as lawyer. Lawyers are supposed to ensure that their client gets a fair trial in court / cj system and that is what Kevin does (due process). He defends his “people”. Now, whether I personally would defend someone in court knowing that he/she is guilty of molesting a child or murder, is a different story because it goes against my values and morals. As far as the vice goes, going back to the “hole in the wall”, Kevin was violating privacy. The way I look at it, is that let’s imagine that everyyyy lawyer was able to do that. What would become of trials then?
3. Although I have not worked in the legal profession, I can say that yes, I believe that these ethical questions and more are present. If they were not, we wouldn’t have to have “Ethics” classes / trainings, we wouldn’t hear so many stories. This film may have the “Hollywood” twist but, it has its realistic points.
I agree with Elaine. Kevin lost his sight of what is wrong & right. It was like he had control to stop it, but he decided to walk another path that was more attractive in his eyes. In the end, it was all a test.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDelete1.Should a lawyer defend a client when they know that client is guilty?
2.At what cost should a lawyer go to manipulate the verdict?
3.Should a lawyer take a case that goes against his principles?
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
The two main virtues illustrated in the film are honesty and integrity. These virtues are shown towards the ending of the film when Kevin decides to drop the case instead of defending a man that he knows is guilty.
There were many vices illustrated in the film, some being greed, lust, dishonesty and envy. Kevin shows his dishonesty when he decides to persist with the case of the man who killed his wife and children. Kevin did this even though he knew that the primary evidence in the case has been tampered with. He demonstrated pride when he would refuse to lose a case at all cost. He demonstrated lust with Christabella and envies Milton for his success and the fact that he has what Kevin lusts.
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
I do in fact believe that these ethical issues are present in the legal profession. Now I’m not saying that all lawyers fall into this category but some lawyers do. Some lawyers are forced to choose between doing the “ethical” thing and doing what ever it takes to win success because the primary thing some lawyers are concerned about is winning.
Lomax was very young at what he did and he was also very good at what he did in the fact that he did not lose a case. He then was approached to take on cases that he knew was wrong, in the sense that they were lying and he knew it and that they were guilty. He also went against legal oaths by ease dropping and violating laws. His vices were taking those cases that he knew were guilty and they were lying about it all and he saw right through that but took the money and the fame.
ReplyDeleteYes it is true that today some attorneys take cases that they know are wrong and they will go all out any cost to win their case and build their legacy.
The ethical questions regarding the legal profession that drive the film and its content commence with Mr. Kevin Lomax when he got the acquittal of the eighth grade teacher who had sexually assaulted a young girl. He knew that the accused was guilty but wanted to demonstate how good of lawyer he was by getting the client a not guilty verdict. je accepted the offer to practice in a New York and making an that kind of money he should have realized that something was morally wrong especially with the practices of the firm. With his new carerer taking off he placed more importance on doing whatever it took to win his case. Wealth, greed, and the neglect of his wife showed that his moral and ethical values were at stake. Sounds familiar in what is happemning to our country.
ReplyDeleteThe virtues shown in the movie were integrity, honesty, compassion and service.The vices are vanity, greed, pride and lust. Lust was a big one in this movie......
ReplyDeleteMany of these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession today, defending a person you know is guilty of killing a person. But as a lawyer you have to defend them (if you take the case) and get them the best legal representaion you can give them regardless of their guilt or innocence.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteThe ethical question regarding the legal profession in the Devils Advocate:
Do you defend a person knowing they are guilty?
Kevin in the beginning of the film defended a school teacher who molested a girl. In the beginning he didn’t know however, as trial continued he soon discovered the truth and decided to keep defending the school teacher.
Do you choose work over the ones you love?
Kevin in the beginning asked his wife if she would mind to move to New York and if she didn’t want to he would stay. However, as time went on his wife’s happiness wasn’t a priority. His job came first.
Do you continue to do something that will better you although you know it is unethical?
Kevin in the movie reveals that he use to listen in on the jury discussions in regards to different cases.
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
ReplyDeleteThe virtues that are illustrated in the film are honor and honesty. Kevin at the end of the film showed honesty by decided not to take the case because he knew that the client was guilty. Some vices revealed in the film are: desire, greed, selfishness, temptation, dishonesty, vanity, and the focus of always wining etc. Though out the Kevin’s main priority was wining at any expensive. He didn’t care if the individual was guilty (until the end of the movie)
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
ReplyDeleteI believe a lot of these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession. Everyday we have a lawyer defending an individual who is guilty and the lawyers knows they are guilty. I believe lawyers are faced with ethical issues on a day to day basis. Another example would be whether or not they choose to stay later on a case or go home and spend time with the families. The list goes on and on
What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteLike all my classmates mentioned is a question of being a defence lawyer and knowing the person you are defending is guilty of the crime. But most important is feeling betrayed because you first believe the person is innicent but during the curse of the trial, you realize they are guilty.
Is also choosing your priorites either your family or your career and can you live with your choice.
Because Kevin was such a great lawyer he wanted to stay that way. His thing was about winning casese. Because he was all about winning cases, he didn't care about what type of people he represented anymore. he wanted to keep his status as a great lawyer. His virtues went out the dooor. Anything that he believe in had change for his. Money and being a hot lawyer was now his focuse.
ReplyDeleteThe vices and virtures are greed, lust, power, winning. Everything dealing with doing the right and ethical thing went out the door. At the end of the movie, Kevin took his life because I believe that he knew what he was doing was wrong the whole time. By ending his life, he ended all the wrong he was doing. He could just quit or all of the sudden change to a better person so he decided the best thing was to end it all.
These Ethical questions and values are present today. Lawyers are always faced cases they really don't want to handle because they may think that person is guilty but are either forced to handle the case or pays so much money that they can't resist. Like in the movie, when the teacher molested the young girl, Kevin represented him for the money and to keep his status as hot lawyer. He knew the teacher was guilty but he still threw his ethics right out the door and represented the molester.
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
ReplyDeleteVirtues:loyalty, honesty.
Vices: from the beginning of the movie you see there is desire,greed(money at any cost), selfishness, temptation which is the big one(special when an individual comes from a small town and now in a big city with beautiful womans).
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
ReplyDeleteI agree like most of the bloggers that is still true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession. Lawyers have to make money and sometimes will need to be by defending someone you know is guilty. Our moral values can get in the way but at the end of the tunnel, that attorney needs to bring food to the table.
What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeletefirst I think that Al Pacino the Devil is in control a bad vs. good and the bad is winning. The ethical dilemma can be seen Mr. Kevin (Keanu Reeves) gets an acquittal of a Gainesville 8th grade teacher for raping a young girl. After that, he is offered a large sum to work for a large NY firm. And from this starts the spiral of bad behaviors
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
I think his vice would getting known criminals acquitted of their charges. From the very beginning of the movie Kevin was all vice. With every case he won, the degrees of crimes became more potent. I think other vices would be when he realizes that things are turning bad but he thinks he can handle it he fights with his wife which further shows this.
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
Yes I believe both the ethical questions and values are common in today's legal profession. I think that some people can put aside they ethics and focus on winning case this statement tells a lot about the individuals ethics. So I think that some lawyers can’t handle trying to free guilty people and I think it’s a good thing they are like this
1. What are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteShould a Lawyer defended a guilty client?
Kevin Lomax defending the school teacher who was indeed guilty for molesting the student. Kevin Lomax defended this guilty client to keep his image going.
2. What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
-Professional Gain
- Greed
3. Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
Yes, the ethical questions and values are present in today's legal profession right from wrong isn't valued at all lawyers are required to aid their clients if gulity or innocent. Money is the key to this profession and professional gain.
Kevin Lomax I guess didn’t discover before the teacher (the child molester) that any clients had been really guilty when he was representing them.
ReplyDeleteLomax was stuck in between doing the “right thing” by not representing the teacher in the beginning which Lomax knew he was lying or just going with the flow and pretending the teacher was innocent. Lomax chose to defend him knowing, that he was guilty. Lomax’s pride took the very best of him in that moment, due to the News guy comments in the restroom about him 64-0.
Lomax practically played with Law as a game or competition, what I mean is by him defending the guilty, he didn’t want to lose. Lomax chose his work over his family when he arrived at Milton’s party and then afterwards, his relationship with his family went down hill. Kevin Lomax virtue was that he had time for his wife in the beginning the movie, then to later also that he chose freewill when he saw the reality that Milton (Kevin’s father) was the Devil and he wanted for Lomax to have sex with Christabella (she devil)his half sister to have an anti-Christ to be born. Kevin chose freewill by killing himself, because he rather die that lose to the reality that his wife had died and a molester and an assassin were free ,instead of serving time. Milton makes Lomax wonder if really he won cases on his own or with help from him.
Lomax virtues was that he loved his wife even though he thought that she was crazy and she said Milton had raped her even though he saw Milton in court.
Lomax’s vice to name some was greed it got worse when he joined Milton’s law firm also he had an inner desire for money, popularity, and desire for his half sister which he did not know she was related.(incest).
Values in this movie were rare except for his wife and his mother (church and scriptures) and Kevin was a great lawyer that he was an expert in selecting the jury for cases.
In the legal profession I think most often lawyers pretend that their clients are innocent even though they are guilty just for money or even prestige with the firm, family, society and friends.
I pretty much agree with the comments my other classmates had about the legal profession. Also,Milton manipulated Lomax easily to separate him from his family even though Milton tried to to seem caring about his family (yeah right).
ReplyDeleteWhat are the ethical questions (values) regarding the legal profession that drive this film and its content?
ReplyDeleteAs the movie opens, Kevin—a very successful defense attorney in Florida who has never lost a case —is defending a school teacher against a charge of child molestation. During the trial, Kevin comes to believe his client is guilty. During a recess, a reporter speaks to Kevin, saying that "nobody wins them all." Kevin still decides to go forward and wins the case after a harsh cross-examination of the young witness that destroys her credibility.
No matter how repugnant the crime, no matter how guilty the defendant, Kevin has the power to persuade the jury into accepting his arguments and thus, freeing his clients.
In reality, the way that competing and winning have become such core values in our culture that we lose sight of the place where some other concern should intervene. The character of Kevin, who is been rewarded all his life for being a winner, so he never stepped back to say that winning may not always be the best thing, represents the vanity, the ambition, the materialism. But Kevin in doing so violates the codes of ethics of his profession.
What are the virtues and vices that are illustrated?
Virtues: honesty, honor.
At the end of the movie, we find Kevin in the past, at the recess of the school teacher’s trial. Upon returning to the trial, Kevin this time (he obviously knows that his client is guilty) announces that he can no longer represent his client, despite the possibility of being disbarred.
Vices: temptation, vanity, immeasurable ambition, greed, dishonesty, ego, jealousy, drive, materialism, competitiveness, lust, obsession.
During the movie, Satan appears in human form as Milton (father of Kevin) and presents human choices, and his greatest lure is what Kevin has in common with him: his greed, ego, jealousy, competitiveness, lust, dishonesty, etc.
The Devil (Milton) is giving people their choice, their free will to decide—a demon whose world is our own, with all its mundane events.
Kevin uses his free will when he choose everything that will give him wealth and power up to the point that he leaves behind his wife, his home, mother, and his honesty and honor.
This is a story about a man that has always been a winner and was rewarded for it with the kind of things that winning brings—wealth and power. But winning is no longer just a goal; it becomes an obsession At the end he realizes that winning may not always be the best thing, but then it is too late.
Is it true that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession?
Yes. For instance, it is more likely that lawyers despite of knowing that their clients are guilty, they continue doing their jobs no matter what. The money “buys” lawyers, too. Just a few lawyers will stop representing their clients when they know the truth about their culpability, even though they can be disbarred, but their ethical values plus their worry about public safety (preventing a criminal goes freely to the streets) outweigh their desire of being a winner.
Also, putting the job, the ambition, the competitiveness, materialism, ego, etc. before the family is another ethical issue.
The ethical values of the profeesion of deffense attorney is defending someone that you know is guilty. You have to lie and make this person seem like a saint. And in this movie Kevin is a winner. He also has lots of pride. Do you move out of a town and ask your wife to leave is another question. He has a dilemma of whether to stay with his wife who is clearly sick, or to go and handle his work.
ReplyDeleteSome of the virtues were love, honesty, passion, and sincerity towards his wife. Also, there was Greed, and distrust, and manipulation for self satisfaction.
It is very true that these are some things that are present in the legal profession today. Lots of guilty people get off because of a "Great" defense attorney. Lots of attorney's are greedy and dishonesy
I would have to agree with Tony. Defense attorneys have a tough job. They must prove that something was done wrong in Due process. They Do stand as a form of technicality because they are the ones who catch the mistakes that the police officers, and prosecutors make.
ReplyDeleteLove, honesty, passion, and sincerity towards his wife? I don’t think so ….. Sorry Christopher but I disagree with you. Kevin was looking at other women. And the day when he had sex with his wife after a while (instead of making love), he was imagining that was doing that with his Italian coworker.
ReplyDeleteThe love for his job outweighed the love for his wife!
The ethical questions regarding the legal profession that drives this film became evident at the very beginning when Lomax, even though he knew otherwise, and was somewhat disgusted by it, allowed a guilty man to be exonerated. He could not resist the urge to continue his winning streak, even at the expense of a young girl. To “win at all cost” seem to be this characters’ values, nothing else mattered. It is unfortunate that the values depicted were those of lawyers, handpicked to serve the devil himself.
ReplyDeleteOne of the characters’ virtues was that he loved his wife, even though that did not last for long once he was swept away by the glitz and glamour of money and personal success. One virtuous act he demonstrated was in taking his own life at the end of the movie. As for vices he had many demonstrated throughout the entire movie, as he became the “go to” man whenever the need arose to get a guilty person acquitted.
It would be unfair to make a blanket statement that these ethical questions and values are present in the legal profession. Yes there are lawyers around that are unethical and valve fame and fortune over right and wrong, but there still remains some that holds true to what the legal profession is about, justice and upholding the law.
#1. The legal questions in the film "Devil's Advocate" are clear and well presented. There is the big question of a lawye who should decide to work together and set free a person whom he knows is guilty? Also should he go against his will and follow his professionalism to do what a lawyer is "supposed" to do? There is definetly an ethical dilema in this film.
ReplyDelete#2. His most visible vice was his desire for being a winner. He was focused on winning every case no matter what even if that meant defending a guilty man. And in my opinion his only visture was shown when he decided to take his own life.
#3.It is definetly true that what was shown in the film does happen in today's profession. ALthough it is not shown as clear, such things do happen specially with lawyers with much power, knowledge and experience.
I totally agree with Frederick.Kilian's comment. Almost all the deadly sins were exposed in the film.Every case had its own and every aspect of his life was surrounded by one of these vices or sins.
ReplyDeleteKevin did not have any morals. In a way he lost all his values and respect. In the movie Kevin sold his sould.
ReplyDeleteIt is definetly true that what was shown in the film does happen in today's profession
ReplyDelete.Yes in a way it is true, lawyers only care about money. They are money hunger and they would do what ever it takes to defend their clients. Values at some point does not matter to them.
His virtue was that he was being manipulated. He was not really a bad lawyer he just wanted to look good in front of his clients. He was comfortable cause he knew that he was a good lawyer.
ReplyDeleteclosed
ReplyDelete